_______________________________________________p.s. Sorry to those on the trips@ mailing list for my test messages, it'll make sense if you read this!
Lo All,
I've occasionally noticed that people who reply to messages I've sent into one of the lists... are replying directly to me rather than the list.
I don't always spot it... but on those occasions where I have, I usually let them know and they re-post their message on the list (various people, not targeting anyone particular!).
I don't think people have intentionally sought to just reply to me... if you were though, keep it on the lists where possible... it'll encourage more use of them :)
I've managed to isolate at least 9 messages (let me know if you want a list of them) that were probably meant for the mailing list but came to me instead (which I never noticed at the time and were not resent by the original sender)... so they've now been imported into the archives with all the other messages. Mostly so these conversations now make sense if you ever browse them online!
Where this has been accidental though I've been research the possible reasons why...
Short version: Use a "Reply List" button (or similar name, if you have one), but failing that... using the "Reply All" button should work too.
---
Long version... (read on... especially if you know about e-mail headers!)
I don't seem to be affected by this as much due to a user interface difference in my Thunderbird mail client. When I reply to messages, I've instinctively always been been drawn to using the "Reply List" button (which appears where the "Reply All" button would normally be) next to the normal "Reply" button. Thunderbird seems to show this button because it knows (due to the RFC2369 List-* headers) that it is a mailing list.
If you don't use Thunderbird it'd be helpful to know if your mail client does something similar, maybe people on Gmail may know if that does also?
This does mean though... that those who just hit "Reply" (likely having no other choice, not even "Reply All") need to check if their mail client filled in the "To:" field with the original senders e-mail address or the list address, and manually change it if needed. But generally I'd say these days most people at least have a "Reply All" button which should work just as well.
I find in Thunderbird that if I use "Reply" and not "Reply List" that it always replies directly (and not via the list)... unless I'm replying to myself via the list, then it realises you likely don't want to reply to yourself and uses the list address instead!
Looking back (before the relaunch in August) when the old staffslug@staffslug.org.uk mailing list ran on the older Mailman 2... things (in terms of the From: address and headers, etc...) were set up in exactly the same way as they are now. So not sure how much of an issue it was back then, I never heard of it being a problem back then.
However looking at the way "Shropshire LUG" does it... incoming messages from the mailing list show up as...
From: Steven Madox via Shropshire <shropshire@mailman.lug.org.uk>
Subject: [Shropshire] Whatever
To: shropshire@mailman.lug.org.uk
CC: s.maddox@lantizia.me.ukSo when hitting reply... it goes to the list, and instead the original senders e-mail has been clumsily put into the CC section instead (although they don't get two copies of the message) - mostly so you can just see who really sent it.
Mailman 3 it seems (via the Postorious web UI) has a "Reply goes to list" configuration setting, which although doesn't do what I've seen on Shrops LUG - mangles things in other ways.
It has 4 choices (see this bit of their docs, which strongly recommends you never touch it!)... here they are along with my findings as to what they do...
- No munging (default)
When Tested: Does exactly nothing, which is exactly the intention in this case. Leaving the Reply-To header (if one exists) alone. This does mean though people without RFC2369 compliant mail clients (or just those without a 'Reply List' or 'Reply All' option) need to type in the mailing list address manually in to "To:" field (or copy it from the "To:" that can be found in the original message).- Reply goes to list
When Tested: If you're not using Thunderbird, this likely does exactly what it's meant to, which is add a 'Reply-To' header so if you hit "Reply" it'll go to the list. But it seems Thunderbird changed something a while back to ignore the 'Reply-To' header when using "Reply" if the message is considered to be from a mailing list! I suppose because they really want you to use that 'Reply List' button?
- Explicit Reply-to header set
When Tested: This seems to add a completely empty 'Reply-To' header, no idea why.
- Explicit Reply-to set; no Cc added
When Tested: Seems to do exactly the same as the last one. No idea why this one is 'no Cc added' as none of the above 3 starting adding in Cc's anyway!
The first option 'No munging' is the one that is strongly recommended by the Mailman 3 team.
Anyone got any thoughts on this?
The more I wrote up this e-mail I find myself just wanting to leave it as it is! Trust me this e-mail was going to be way longer :S
-- Steven Maddox Lantizia
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