8:29 a.m.
You've possibly seen this article, but what do you think?
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/207999/desktop_linux_the_dr...
9:26 a.m.
On 19/10/10 08:29, Dave R wrote:
You've possibly seen this article, but what do you think?
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/207999/desktop_linux_the_dr...
This is interesting, only yesterday I was moaning on IRC about the lack of promotion of
Linux and our (Lusers) love of bitching we're a bit like that mad dog baying at the
moon it serves no real purpose other than making a row.
I for one have been waiting in excess of 10 years for "The year of the Linux
desktop", god I hate that statement it makes me want to stab something. As things
stand right now I agree with the author of the article of course the usual zealots will
deny the truth emphatically a bit like king Canute but hey check back here in 2020 when
we're still having the same conversation. :-)
9:42 a.m.
On 19/10/10 08:29, Dave R wrote:
You've possibly seen this article, but what do you think?
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/207999/desktop_linux_the_dr...
I think it's not unusual for someone in the USA to write
as if they were writing about the whole world. Plainly
it's a very parochial article - as well as backwards-
looking.
The real battle for Free Software's future success
remains open standards.
- Richard
10:58 a.m.
On the one hand it is so very easy to go along with that article.
There are a lot of truths in there. However, I don't personally think
Linux is dead in the water as far as widespread adoption is concerned.
Conversely this will not happen without, as has been mentioned more
than once in the comments at the end of the article, MARKETING. Linux
needs to be pushed but the likes of Canonical and possibly Red Hat.
SuSE and Novell I won't mention because they appear to be in a bit of
a turmoil at the moment but they have had their chance and missed it.
On a personal level Linux is here. It is the desktop of choice for me
and I'm hopeless when it comes to CLI stuff which is what always seems
to get mentioned. Give me the choice of Linux, Microsoft or Apple and
Linux will win hands down every time. Yes, I'm producing this e-mail
on a machine currently running Win XP, that's simply because I'm lazy
and haven't/can't be arsed to swap the drives over with my Ubuntu HDD.
This is the family PC and I want an easy life with the rest of them
:-) In my defence I do have two PC's in my workshop that both run
only Linux. One is a dedicated Ubuntu box with Gnome on it and the
other currently has Lubuntu but will change as my whim takes it.
Linux has in fact succeeded in a massive way just not as a desktop
system. It is in so many embedded devices that the vast majority of
the general public don't now about. It is used in many set top boxes,
phones and stand alone kiosks.
I think that Linux's downfall is purely its strength at the same time.
It is so damn configurable. We can mess with it and change stuff.
Trouble is we can also break it. By us I mean the general public at
large which inevitably means when it's broke "it's no good". This
ignores the fact that it is the user who has broken the system and is
not the fault of Linux itself. Correct me if I am wrong but I think
it is rare for a modern Linux install to fail (on modern hardware),
when compared to the amount of installs it must get every day.
Lastly, it has been mentioned that people expect DVD play back etc.
Agreed. I do and I was bitterly disappointed the first time I
couldn't play a disk all those years ago. The public do not give a
fig about DRM or such other restrictions they simply want to be able
to play what they have purchased. So, perhaps the price of the disk
should include any DRM charge instead of the software to play it?
Surely that makes more sense?
--
==============================================
Kevan
Linux user #373362
Staffordshire
**********************************************
www.freeworld-recycling.org
'From me to you towards a sustainable future.'
**********************************************
11:13 a.m.
On 19 October 2010 10:58, Kevanf1 <kevanf1(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On a personal level Linux is here. It is the desktop of choice for
me
and I'm hopeless when it comes to CLI stuff which is what always seems
to get mentioned. Give me the choice of Linux, Microsoft or Apple and
Linux will win hands down every time.
Agreed. My work laptop came with WinXP. We're a Linux company, but I
was asked to set it up to dual-boot as we support Windows servers and
it's occasionally useful to have a Windows client. I boot into Windows
probably less than once a month, because I prefer Ubuntu.
Lastly, it has been mentioned that people expect DVD play back etc.
Agreed. I do and I was bitterly disappointed the first time I
couldn't play a disk all those years ago. The public do not give a
When I tried to play an MP3 on Ubuntu, it offered to find a codec. I
clicked a button, it installed the codecs, and my MP3 played. I seem
to recall Windows media player doing something similar years ago when
I tried to play something it didn't understand.
fig about DRM or such other restrictions they simply want to be able
to play what they have purchased. So, perhaps the price of the disk
I think people are starting to care about DRM (though I'm not sure
many people know the term), precisely because "they simply want to be
able to play what they have purchased". As they come up against the
restrictions, I think they start to take notice. As hardware fails and
is replaced, and they find that they can't simply load their DRM'd
media onto the new device, they start to complain. They assume that
when they buy something, they can play it whenever and wherever they
like, and complain when they find that's not the case. Of course, it
depends on exactly what restrictions are placed on the media. As far
as I know, DVDs will work on any Windows box, so I doubt that ever
bothers most people, but I expect they'd be very unhappy if they found
that they couldn't play their DVDs on their new Linux box.
Russ
--
Help a friend & I raise £1,000 for Cancer Research UK:
http://www.justgiving.com/russphillips
11:28 a.m.
On 19 October 2010 11:13, Russ Phillips <russ(a)phillipsuk.org> wrote:
> Lastly, it has been mentioned that people expect DVD play back
etc.
> Agreed. I do and I was bitterly disappointed the first time I
> couldn't play a disk all those years ago. The public do not give a
When I tried to play an MP3 on Ubuntu, it offered to find a codec. I
clicked a button, it installed the codecs, and my MP3 played. I seem
to recall Windows media player doing something similar years ago when
I tried to play something it didn't understand.
Or, in my experience Windows couldn't find the codec to play back the
media :-) It was some time ago but I was mightily annoyed. Sadly I
don't think I tried it on a Linux box, sorry.
--
==============================================
Kevan
Linux user #373362
Staffordshire
**********************************************
www.freeworld-recycling.org
'From me to you towards a sustainable future.'
**********************************************
11:40 p.m.
I really hate the way that the modern assumption is that everybody
wants to move towards cloud-based computing.
I'm happy to see such a future, but I want to maintain control of my
data. I think it would be best if it was made very easy for everybody
to host their own cloud. If you could buy a box like current 1TB NAS
devices, which ran a version of linux exposing all your data and
services via apache.. Sorted. No?
Adam
On 19 October 2010 11:28, Kevanf1 <kevanf1(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 19 October 2010 11:13, Russ Phillips <russ(a)phillipsuk.org>
wrote:
>> Lastly, it has been mentioned that people expect DVD play back etc.
>> Agreed. I do and I was bitterly disappointed the first time I
>> couldn't play a disk all those years ago. The public do not give a
>
> When I tried to play an MP3 on Ubuntu, it offered to find a codec. I
> clicked a button, it installed the codecs, and my MP3 played. I seem
> to recall Windows media player doing something similar years ago when
> I tried to play something it didn't understand.
Or, in my experience Windows couldn't find the codec to play back the
media :-) It was some time ago but I was mightily annoyed. Sadly I
don't think I tried it on a Linux box, sorry.
--
==============================================
Kevan
Linux user #373362
Staffordshire
**********************************************
www.freeworld-recycling.org
'From me to you towards a sustainable future.'
**********************************************
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10:46 a.m.
On 19/10/10 23:40, Adam Egan wrote:
I really hate the way that the modern assumption is that everybody
wants to move towards cloud-based computing.
I'm happy to see such a future, but I want to maintain control of my
data. I think it would be best if it was made very easy for everybody
to host their own cloud. If you could buy a box like current 1TB NAS
devices, which ran a version of linux exposing all your data and
services via apache.. Sorted. No?
That's the ideal - but beyond idealism it
could happen with some of the embedded kit
you can now buy which fits into a mains plug.
If, in the future, they came embedded with
Diaspora or GNU social, and a small slot for
your 1TB SD card (heh, Moore's law, right?)
then we're sorted.
Of course for this to work seamlessly it might
help if IPv6 were finally adopted... ;-)
- Richard
11:40 a.m.
On 19/10/10 23:40, Adam Egan wrote:
I really hate the way that the modern assumption is that everybody
wants to move towards cloud-based computing.
I really hope I'm still around when you no longer own a computer as we know it in your
home any longer, I can see a time just around the corner where you will have a
'Screen' bolted to the wall and that will be it.
You'll do everything from the 'screen' watch films and TV, listen to music,
compute, take phone calls (Video ones) and it will all be from the cloud the likes of the
BBC or Time Warner will be your ISP and we will have 4000GB+ download rates so there's
no bandwidth issues.
I remember telling my misses 20 years ago "We'll all be watching movies on our
mobiles you watch" and having her berate me for my stupidity yet here we are watching
all sorts on them these days these are exciting times with new technologies arriving daily
TBH I would say I'm 30-40% cloud based already I use Gmail, Google docs, Google
Calendar, Dropbox I rarely use USB pendrives or DVD?CD's these days plus Google are
far more likely to have a bazillion times better backup solution than anyone will ever
have locally.
I'm happy to see such a future, but I want to maintain control of
my
data.
We have no control over our data we think we have but we don't, every time you send an
email Cheltenham can grab it out the air if they want and don't kid yourself with
"Ah I send mine encrypted" MI5 + 6 eat encryption for breakfast, every time you
download an Android app your ISP/Phone provider knows what you are doing and where you are
doing it from the list is endless. Banks, insurer's in fact anything you've ever
applied for will be available to someone somewhere.
I think it would be best if it was made very easy for everybody
to host their own cloud.
That's not cloud computing that's still owning your own PC but hosted in some
vault somewhere (Or the cupboard under the stairs I suppose)
If you could buy a box like current 1TB NAS
devices, which ran a version of linux exposing all your data and
services via apache.. Sorted. No?
You certainly can buy 1TB NAS with HTTPD enabled
:-)
12:44 p.m.
On 20/10/10 11:40, Peter Cannon wrote:
We have no control over our data we think we have but we don't,
every time you send an email Cheltenham can grab it out the air
if they want and don't kid yourself with "Ah I send mine
encrypted" MI5 + 6 eat encryption for breakfast, every time
you download an Android app your ISP/Phone provider knows what
you are doing and where you are doing it from the list
is endless. Banks, insurer's in fact anything you've ever
applied for will be available to someone somewhere.
While the government (and other organisations) certainly have access to
a lot of our data, that doesn't mean they necessarily control all of it.
With a cloud based system the operator has total control, with the
ability to add, remove or change anything as they see fit.
For example, you may remember last year Amazon remotely deleted copies
of 1984 from users' Kindles, supposedly because they didn't have the
rights to sell it in the first place. Also, Sony recently remotely
removed the "run other OS" feature from PlayStation 3s, which they
claimed was a measure to counter copyright infringement.
If all your data was in the cloud, this sort of thing would be a lot
easier to do and I think that it would be very tempting for
organisations to use it as a way of controlling "troublesome"
information. Worse, with no local storage, how would you prove anything
had actually been changed?
Coincidentally, there was a discussion along these very lines at the
Birmingham Unconference last Saturday.
1:14 p.m.
On 20/10/10 12:44, David Boucher wrote:
On 20/10/10 11:40, Peter Cannon wrote:
While the government (and other organisations) certainly have access
to
a lot of our data, that doesn't mean they necessarily control all of it.
With a cloud based system the operator has total control, with the
ability to add, remove or change anything as they see fit.
For example, you may remember last year Amazon remotely deleted copies
of 1984 from users' Kindles, supposedly because they didn't have the
rights to sell it in the first place. Also, Sony recently remotely
removed the "run other OS" feature from PlayStation 3s, which they
claimed was a measure to counter copyright infringement.
You could look at that from another angel, while I agree it does give you a feeling of
being violated in some way potentially you was saved a horrendous legal bill for
purchasing something illegally. Remember ignorance is no defence under UK law you are
supposed to know if your purchase is legitimate or not.
If all your data was in the cloud, this sort of thing would be a lot
easier to do and I think that it would be very tempting for
organisations to use it as a way of controlling "troublesome"
information. Worse, with no local storage, how would you prove anything
had actually been changed?
Its really hard to let go believe me I've been there with my CD collection I resisted
my ipod for years however now I have every bit of music I own on there there are no
physical music discs in our house (Actually that's not true they are in the loft but
you know what I mean) its so much more convenient now. Look at this spotify everyone raves
about its just the same you don't 'have' it you use it.
I often wonder when I hear this "My data" what could this be? is it the blue
print for a way to promote longevity? Is it a map to the vaults of Lloyds bank in the high
st? Na usually its some bits of code, pictures of the dog and your CV :-D
(I'm just taking the p)
Coincidentally, there was a discussion along these very lines at the
Birmingham Unconference last Saturday.
I know I was there I was the bald headed git in the Arch tee shirt :-)
2:04 p.m.
On 20/10/10 13:14, Peter Cannon wrote:
On 20/10/10 12:44, David Boucher wrote:
> On 20/10/10 11:40, Peter Cannon wrote:
> [...]
> For example, you may remember last year Amazon remotely deleted copies
> of 1984 from users' Kindles, supposedly because they didn't have the
> rights to sell it in the first place. Also, Sony recently remotely
> removed the "run other OS" feature from PlayStation 3s, which they
> claimed was a measure to counter copyright infringement.
You could look at that from another angel, while I agree it does give you
a feeling of being violated in some way potentially you was saved a
horrendous
legal bill for purchasing something illegally. Remember ignorance is
no defence under UK law you are supposed to know if your purchase is
legitimate or not.
Whilst that's true for the Amazon example, the PlayStation one strikes
me more like a case of "some people are misusing this feature, so we'll
take it away from everyone". The main point that I was trying to make it
that with many platforms, the operator now has the ability to remotely
alter "your" data. At the moment, you need to go online for them to be
able to do this, as most of the data is stored at your end. With a cloud
platform, the data is at their end, so this requirement goes away.
[...]
Its really hard to let go believe me I've been there with my CD collection
I resisted my ipod for years however now I have every bit of music I own
on there there are no physical music discs in our house (Actually that's
not true they are in the loft but you know what I mean) its so much more
convenient now. Look at this spotify everyone raves about its just
the same you don't 'have' it you use it.
But all your music is on an iPod, or on a hard disk in some device that
you control isn't it? That's not the same as it being in the cloud,
where some music publisher can have a rummage through it, have stuff
deleted because it's decided that it's "not properly licensed" and ask
you to pay for it again. I'm not accusing you of illegally copying music
by the way, but as the UK has no fair use rights enshrined in law, if
those mp3 have been ripped from your CD collection, the published could
label them unlicensed copies.
I often wonder when I hear this "My data" what could this be? is it the
blue print for a way to promote longevity? Is it a map to the vaults of
Lloyds bank in the high st? Na usually its some bits of code, pictures
of the dog and your CV :-D
(I'm just taking the p)
I take your point though. For most people there wouldn't be anything
that the government would be interested in. Once the data is out of your
hands though you really have no control about who else has access to it.
> Coincidentally, there was a discussion along these very lines at the
> Birmingham Unconference last Saturday.
I know I was there I was the bald headed git in the Arch tee shirt :-)
I wondered if that was you when I say the email address. I was the
ginger bloke.
2:13 p.m.
On 20/10/10 14:04, David Boucher wrote:
But all your music is on an iPod, or on a hard disk in some device
that
you control isn't it? That's not the same as it being in the cloud,
where some music publisher can have a rummage through it, have stuff
deleted because it's decided that it's "not properly licensed" and ask
you to pay for it again. I'm not accusing you of illegally copying music
by the way, but as the UK has no fair use rights enshrined in law, if
those mp3 have been ripped from your CD collection, the published could
label them unlicensed copies.
Yeah good point, I was more highlighting the fact of giving up cd's than the actual
storage medium. My point being we're all used to 'having' stuff its a leap of
faith to change that.
I take your point though. For most people there wouldn't be
anything
that the government would be interested in. Once the data is out of your
hands though you really have no control about who else has access to it.
Simon Phipps can tell you all about being spied on and misuse of your data/information he
can tell you things you'd never even think of. Strikes me some people put more effort
into avoidance than the data is actually worth.
I wondered if that was you when I say the email address. I was the
ginger bloke.
? Hm Sat next to Amo (In the discussion) the Indian guy?
Have you seen this http://www.cannon-linux.co.uk I did a write up
2:17 p.m.
On 20 October 2010 14:13, Peter Cannon <dick_turpin(a)archlinux.us> wrote:
Yeah good point, I was more highlighting the fact of giving up cd's than the actual
storage medium. My point being we're all used to 'having' stuff its a leap of
faith to change that.
It's a human frailty called reassurance.
Why do the likes of Disney etc always say "yours to 'own' for £xx" but
then moan about people making a backup copy? If it's "yours to
own".......
--
==============================================
Kevan
Linux user #373362
Staffordshire
**********************************************
www.freeworld-recycling.org
'From me to you towards a sustainable future.'
**********************************************
2:18 p.m.
Sorry Pete, I only meant to reply once to the group. I should have
taken out your e-mail address. So apologies for you getting it twice.
--
==============================================
Kevan
Linux user #373362
Staffordshire
**********************************************
www.freeworld-recycling.org
'From me to you towards a sustainable future.'
**********************************************
5:06 p.m.
On 20 October 2010 14:25, Peter Cannon <dick_turpin(a)archlinux.us> wrote:
On 20/10/10 14:18, Kevanf1 wrote:
> Sorry Pete, I only meant to reply once to the group. I should have
> taken out your e-mail address. So apologies for you getting it twice.
Invoice for removal services is in the post :-)
I'll send one of my famous rubber cheques :-)
Take care.
--
==============================================
Kevan
Linux user #373362
Staffordshire
**********************************************
www.freeworld-recycling.org
'From me to you towards a sustainable future.'
**********************************************
5:14 p.m.
On 20/10/10 17:06, Kevanf1 wrote:
I'll send one of my famous rubber cheques :-)
Here's something scary for you Kevan
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonobacon/416947349/in/photostream/lightbox/...
4:50 p.m.
On 20/10/10 14:13, Peter Cannon wrote:
On 20/10/10 14:04, David Boucher wrote:
[...]
> I wondered if that was you when I say the email address. I was the
> ginger bloke.
? Hm Sat next to Amo (In the discussion) the Indian guy?
Don't think so, but it's hard to be sure as we changed rooms a few times
:) When we were in the small room that had one of the meeting rooms
coming off it (if that makes sense) I was more or less opposite you. I
had a brown National Museum of Computing t-shirt on if that helps.
Have you seen this http://www.cannon-linux.co.uk I did a write up
I'd not seen that. I'll have a read.
5:12 p.m.
On 20/10/10 16:50, David Boucher wrote:
Don't think so, but it's hard to be sure as we changed rooms
a few times
:) When we were in the small room that had one of the meeting rooms
coming off it (if that makes sense) I was more or less opposite you. I
had a brown National Museum of Computing t-shirt on if that helps.
Oh yeah, you should have slapped my bald head and said Hi.
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19 comments
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participants (7)
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