Hello all, There were a number of points raised in question over the charitable actions of a small shop in Mid-Wales, who asked for GNU/Linux Laptops, to send to a school in Nepal. Particular objections came from people who considered all foreigners dishonest, or only needing pencils, but there were also many reasonable and valid concerns, so I asked the original poster, and the shop-owner, to answer some of these points - to address the considerable fears that the campaign seemed to raise for people. Alan Hill, of the Souk in Llangollen, has below addressed most of the points brought up on some of the lists - I suggest anyone with further questions CCs him in your list reply, or reply directly to him off-list, as appropriate. I have removed from his mail a binary attachment containing a copy of a hand-written letter from the school's headmaster asking for various items, with computers at the top of the list. - Richard ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Begin forwarded message: Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 20:57:07 -0000 (GMT) From: "thesouk.uwclub.net" <thesouk(a)uwclub.netTo: "Richard Smedley" <smedley358(a)btinternet.comSubject: Re: [lugmaster] Fwd: Linux-refurbished Laptops for Nepal Appeal! Dear Richard Thanks very much for forwarding Matt’s email to the N Wales LUGs. I was very interested in the responses you received. I realise that people have responded on the basis of very little information, indeed some of the comments are exactly the sort of thing I would have said in the same situation. I would like to take the opportunity say a bit more about what we do and also to respond to the points made. I realise that you are only the conduit for these so forgive me if at times I speak frankly. My wife and I run a shop and very soon an online shop. We have recently started to import goods from Nepal for wholesale and retail. We have done this in part because we have become disillusioned with the current concept of “fair trade” which allows companies such as Tesco and Sainsburys to wave the fair trade flag as part of their marketing strategies. (see War on Want report Nov 06). I deal directly with producers in Nepal that pay their employees a reasonable wage (relative to Nepal), have reasonable working conditions for their employees, don’t employ kids, etc. I have visited many producers in Nepal and have selected a small number (who have satisfied our conditions) to do business with. Further to this we also support the Shree Garma School in the Solukhumber region (up near Mt Everest). We support them by donating approx. 10% of the retail cost of each item to the school. This donation takes the form of the actual cash or things the school have stated they need. I am also working on a longer term project to fund a small hydro-electric generator for the school (the school has no power) possibly in conjunction with the charity Practical Action (see the Guardian’s Christmas appeal). The school has also very clearly stated that they, as their highest priority, would like computers. (see attachment) We do not place any conditions on what the school uses these funds for. We also occasionally ask people to make a donation in the form of things, in this case old laptops. We do not ask for money. We have found that when we tell people about what we do many will either buy our products or want to donate some money. Preferring not to take cash donations we ask people to go to the Pound shops and buy a £worth of pens and pencils etc which we can add to what we take over. We do this because we want to make a social investment in the third world country we source our goods from. In these times of global trade, the rape of the third world and unrestrained corporate capitalism we’re are trying to find a way of conducting our business that sit comfortably with our political and ethical views, either that or we’re just well meaning Guardian readers. Points raised 1.“…people in Nepal need pencils, shouldn't be let near a computer” I agree with this statement whole heartedly and to that end we regulary send stationary to the school. Computers would not have been my priority, if it was up to me I’d have picked electricity or glass for the windows or even better shoes for the kids etc, however it is not up to me, and therefore not for me to “tell” the people of this school and village what is good for them. (The luxury of being neither a charity nor a Christian I suppose). 2. “…wouldn't have the electricity anyway, old laptops have no battery life”, They don’t have electricity, that is correct. There is power to the village (although few can afford to be connected to it) so recharging the computers or rather recharging car batteries for the Laptops to run off is possible. We are also currently looking at small solar or wind rechargers 3. “…this is just a scheme to dump toxic waste on the third world”. Why would I want to go to all this trouble and expense to first collect and then dump toxic waste in the third world when I could use the laybys and open spaces of North Wales ??? ( A real puzzler this one). 4. “….the computers will never get there” All of the things we buy/raise get there because I or my friend, who was born in the village, take them ourselves when we visit Nepal. Our next trip is planned for May/June. 5.”…not a charity - it's not even a registered company No, we are not a charity, we are a small business. We are also individuals who wish to make a small contribution to others. I know it’s not the most fashionable of businesses practices but we want to see if we can combine the two. We have been supporting various charities over the years (education and sponsorships being our preferred areas) but as with the fair trade “brand” we have become somewhat disillusioned. Amongst numerous concerns is that many charities supporting third world issues, Oxfam for example, are large “corporate” entities with all the paraphernalia that accompanies such organisations. The current chief exec. at Oxfam is on approx. £80k a year + expenses + car + generous pension plan and has recently overseen the multi-million pound relocation of the organisation’s HQ. No prizes for guessing where the cash for all this comes from. For some this is OK, to function an organisation must have a viable structure. For me though, I like to think that if I donate something it’s going to go to the people I have donated it to. I do not wish to denigrate the good work of many charities, indeed I am in discussion with Practical Action about a possible collaboration but anything we raise from others gets to the people the others wish to help. Does your respondent believe that is it only Registered Charities that are able to do something useful? When you donate to something to what you believe is a good cause will you only donate it if there is a Registered Charity acting as the middle man? As for the point regarding us being a registered company. As sole traders we are not required to be registered at Companies House but if your responder would like to come and visit our shop in Llangollen (on Oak Street) to further check us out he/she is welcome. Might I further suggest he/she may find greater use for his/her talents in the CIA or maybe the FBI, - just a thought. 5. “..will be sold by the Nepalis, they will only be used for porn anyway. Having met the teachers and pupils of the school I know that their requests are sincere and that they will make the greatest use of what ever resources we can assist them with. This is an isolated and impoverished community in the High Himalayas and there does not seem to me to be a “quick buck” mentality. As I stated earlier, we place no conditions on what we give to Shree Garma School. However it is not for me to judge or dictate how this school chooses to use these resources. That means that if the wish to sell them or wank themselves into a frenzy every hour on the hour, it is up to them. These people are not children or ignorant savages, they are capable of making informed decisions on what is best for their community. Maybe with a few laptops they can become even more informed and also have the means to argue these rather insulting points for themselves. I asked Matt to contact you as I believed that Linux Users may be interested in what we are doing and may further be interested in offering some assistance. The help we are trying to give this school is geared towards their empowerment. Surely Linux users can see this point. I’m not only after a few old laptops but also some expertise in setting the things up in a more egalitarian way and not dependent on the Microsoft Monster. There have been some great responses from Matt’s email and I feel confident I can achieve our aims, particularly on the technical support side. I would welcome any further enquiries about what we do and will gladly supply further info, photos etc. Thanks for your help and the opportunity to respond to the points raised. Alan Hill The Souk Oak Street Llangollen [snipped summary of some of the responses on a couple of the lists] > If you want help from LUG members you will have to answer some of > the points raised on these lists. > Best wishes, > - Richard [original mail to lugmaster list, left in for those not following well...] > On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:27:38 +0000 > "Mark Broadbent" <mgjbroadbent(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote: >> Hi All, >>> I've been asked by a member of my LUG (Herefordshire) if the >> following notice could be circulated around as many LUGs as possible >> please. >>> All follow-ups to this should be directed to Matt Rhys-Roberts at >> eccn(a)spherica.demon.co.uk >>> Thanks >> Mark Broadbent >> Herefordshire LUG >>> --------------- >> A small business in North Wales has hit upon the idea of supplying a >> school in an impoverished area of Nepal, with refurbished laptop >> computers running Linux. In their own words: >>> "The Shree Garma Secondary School is in the Solukhumbu district of >> Nepal and is only 40 miles from Everest. It is extremely isolated and >> there are no roads. It can be reached by an internal flight from >> Kathmandu followed by a three hour walk. It is obviously very poor >> and most people are subsistence farmers. >>> The school caters for around 150 children of all ages. They have only >> the most basic facilities and no electricity. Their main priority is >> to have computers. Initially we are going to try and supply them with >> six lap top computers which can be charged in houses which do have >> electricity and longer term our aim is to develop a hydro power >> station which could potentially provide electricity to many houses as >> well as the school. >>> Katlan Trading Company based at The Souk in Llangollen is committed >> to helping this school through importing goods from Nepal. A >> percentage of all sales will go direct to the school. We are not a >> registered charity but instead are aiming to help through direct >> trade." >>>> The company wishes to enlist the help of any UK LUG members who can >> a) gather unused laptops, b) install Linux on them, and c) send them >> to a central collection point to be announced. >>> The ideal Linux distro remains to be decided, since equipment will >> vary greatly. However it is hoped, hardware permitting, that each >> laptop will have installed on it a minimum of: a working X server, >> OpenOffice (or smaller office apps for lesser machines), a graphics >> package, printer and network support, email, IRC, and of course the >> Nepali language as far as possible. There appears to be a Nepali >> distro already underway at http://www.nepalinux.org/ , which may be >> suitable for some hardware. For lesser machines, perhaps Damn Small >> Linux, Vector Linux or Knoppix may be more appropriate. >>> The village has no phone network yet, but one is anticipated there >> within the next 2 years! >>> Please contact me if you can contribute in any way to this project. I >> aim to help coordinate efforts to source donated laptops, test them, >> install appropriate software, then perform a final quality check. We >> are still at the planning stage, seeing who's really available to >> help. No doubt this project could generate some very good publicity >> for Linux abroad, waste prevention and fair trade. >>> Regards, >> Matt Rhys-Roberts, Wrexham >> eccn(a)spherica.demon.co.uk >> (Herefordshire LUG member) >>> PS. Further reading for inspiration (it looks like there's already a >> good & growing Nepalese Linux user base!): >>> http://www.researchut.com/repository/linux-nepal.html >> A non-profit organization dedicated to promoting GNU/Linux in the >> kingdom of the Himalayas >> http://www.nepalinux.org/ >> The new release NepaLinux 1.1 is a relatively bug-free and revised >> version of the previous beta release. >> http://www.linuxnepal.com.np/aboutus/ >> A Linux enthusiasts' site in Nepal >> ------------------------- >> -------------------------